The Tea Party is the Enemy - Make no Apologies

The Democratic and Republican parties.

Their biggest lie - and biggest Achilles heel - is the refusal to acknowledge their Theocratic values. The latter is Toxic on a National Vote, and will be the big issue of 2012.

For sure economy and jobs will be up there, but those two always are every election since doomsday. Theocratic values is their weakness, and is what will sink them Nationally.

At a State level it will take longer, but as their policies have no substance to them (look at the core 15 principles on their website), eventually the bubble will burst at a State level and they will be tossed out amidst the chaos.

.... and vote in the next radial group that promises things they can't keep

Thats probably true :)

Kinda terrifying when you think about it - lets hope the Tea Party saga at least gives a sufficiently bad taste in their mouths to hold that spectre off for a while....

How? That's the tea problem.

Liberals are abused girlfriends apologizing for getting punched by GOP boyfriends.

Tea Party is wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate Masters. They suckle on Kochs.

Their fear and hate is leash used to steer them towards corporate interests. Their fear and hatred of blacks, Muslims, women blind them to fact that they are working against their own interests and for good of rich.

Ironic that those least likely to become rich from lack of smarts are so sympathetic to wealth. Pigs sympathetic to butchers.

We can't move them, only overcome them.

Lol andrew.... sounds a lot like corporate mission statements they plaster their walls with for the benefit of the workers and then rain impossible objectives in their path for a very low rate of return. I would even venture a guess the mission statement of the tea party was written in the hallowed halls of ALEC. Even the Koch Brothers personally took a hand in training them in how to disrupt democratic town halls and giving them pep talks. Yeah, ALEC all the way.

No, they are not the National Party aims, its not even the Party site. The actual Site is :

http://www.teaparty.org/about.php

Where the fifteen - very different, and actual National - aims of the Party are laid out. They also clearly state:

(Yes, We Are A Christian Nation) You don't have to be a Christian to enjoy freedom. The Tea Party welcomes all Red Blooded U.S. Citizens.

So they are a Christian Nationalist Party by their own definition (We are a Christian Nation). Yet at the same time they claim you don't have to be Christian to enjoy freedom - interesting ...... wonder which it is ??

As for welcoming "all Red Blooded US Citizens" .... do you really need a lesson on US Traditional values of diversity and how that screams at what has just been said in the same statement?

Thats before we get into what their practical policies are, which are no where to be seen. Even their Candidates take up the Party Site theme - speak in invective, say nothing concrete, explain no proposed policy. Its just empty invective.

Preamble: The Tea Party Movement is an all-inclusive American grassroots movement with the belief that everyone is created equal and deserves an equal opportunity to thrive in these United States where they may "pursue life, liberty and happiness" as stated in theDeclaration of Independence and guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

unless they are gay , muslim , atheist , black , brown , female.

Sorry Allen about the bullet points and shortage of truth. Not trained in debate nor formal presentations. High School only and over 50 years ago. Reading takes one a long way, life experience takes one even farther... ability to observe and analyze helps as well. At the time of my guided and formal education took place, females having designs on higher education was just not a consideration. After that, family responsibilities took precedence.

I knew it would just be a matter of time before Americans discovered who the Tea Party really is.

http://www.fearexpress.com/2010/05/tea-party-embracing-white-supr.html

#1.5:Hate and anger can only take a Party so far, if the electorate don't see any improvements in their lives as a result of their actions. They will boot out the Tea Party and vote in the next radial group that promises things they can't keep.

Good morning Allen,

I could have kept reading from the wonderful piece listed here because it was so truthful and yet made me so angry at what is being allowed to continue to happen. I have always been cognizant of, and fought against what the KKK, the GOP-repugs, John Birch Society, Jim Crow, school anti-busing and other elements attempt to disavow the civil rights of others.

I am presently 65 years young and continue to look forward to fighting these evil cabals where they stand- and don't even consider uttering an apology! Pulease.

I plan to continue to vote Democratic and so does my family and friends! I can only hope that others will see the true writing on the wall and vote these repug/Teabagger monsters/scum out of office once and for all - and keep them out this time!

#1.9:Ironic that those least likely to become rich from lack of smarts are so sympathetic to wealth. Pigs sympathetic to butchers. We can't move them, only overcome them.

How true, so true! Let get going!

TEAhadists! Can't live with'em and you can't live... well... with'em.

Simplistic ideology and pedantic dogma bound thought all wrapped up together. If they weren't so dangerous they'd be funny.

What seems so ridiculous to me, is that the Tea Party says this is a Christian Nation but you don't have to be a Christian to enjoy freedom.

Now to me, I'm wondereing if they are speaking "christian theology." In other words when someone who is a Christian says to me they are free, it means they have accepted Christ as their savior and they are not in bondage to sin anymore.

Because freedom is given by God not man. So their words to me sound as double speak.

It just sounds like they are wanting to be free to be greedy and want it to seem as if they are doing it in God's Name, all the while saying to those who don't believe in Christ, that they are free to enjoy their-Tea Party- beliefs which are really just based on greed.

Because the link Zydor, so kindly, supplied in #1.12 shows how nationalistic they areally are, how much they link their patriotism to the military instead of to the principles of freedom and America being a country based on opportunities for those who seek a better life. In other words they are promoting the corporatist mentality which is warned against as well as outlawed by the Constitution.

Now if they just called themselves the greed party, they'd at least be honest.

The Tea Party is the Enemy - Make no Apologies

Abosolutey

The sad thing is the Tea Party has made the GOP extint , it is now one in the same

...ya wanna say it aint so...

CBO does ..... and not a tweak out of GOP for not balancing that little lot. $850Billion surplus to a $1Trillion deficit - per year - is quite something over 8 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CBO_Forecast_Changes_for_2009-2012.png

Only lefty would go on record as saying Americans are the enemy of America

I would have to disagree on that statement.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/American_Civil_War

It was a sad part of our history, but it also could become our future.

Only lefty would go on record as saying Americans are the enemy of America

Even Bachmann - be pretty hard to beat going further right - insisted that a significant number of members of Congress were anti-american.

I know she is (arguably) certifiably barking mad, but she is on record, and she certainly is Right Wing (big time) ....

#1.4--you nailed it! Excellent comment!!

"..the "Tea Party" is not a single entity..".........

"Because for every one of them you see raising hell at rallies there are thousands less "inspired" or less polarized ones sitting at home.."...........

..........just waiting to vote!

and calling us names won't change that.

Can You Smell The Extremism?

If you believe any of these beliefs are possessed by terrorists or the "enemy", you are either insane, a liar, or a fool.

Did anyone else notice Andrew's ...

• complete demonization of anyone who disagrees with you?
• preclusion of the possibility of honest, intellectual dissent?
• direct equation of his movement's platform with citizenship?

Even if one believed all points represented -- and the movement itself doesn't honor truly 'free' trade/market -- there is also the unstated by everywhere present way in which the agenda is used.

• Insane
• Liar
• Fool

It's time to end the discussion with and to walk away from this political cult.

Opinion8ed, I agree with your assessment of Andrews list, to many bullet points, not enough truth.

"You can't handle the truth" Allen, all do is spread lies and smear. November 2012 will be a glorious victory for the baggers, and the more lies and deceit you spread the crazier you look. Sorry, but I will not continue to debate your rabid fantasies.

http://teabagger2012.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/03/7586168-former-dnc-chair-goptea-party-would-win-control-of-congress-if-elections-were-held-now-the-daily-caller

I love the header. Real Liberals-No corporate money. No Masters. so lets count the adds.

There's an add for selling a book, another one for shoes, dozens of links to all kinds of websites that sell stuff.

Yep No corporate money there.

How about the Hypocrisy.

"Our political discourse has been shaped by these types of exchanges for a decade. It has to change, and it seems to be changing,"

And yet a couple of sentences later the author is applauding Waters for that exact kind of discourse.

"But Maxine Waters took the Tea Party critique to a whole new level by announcing that “the tea party can go straight to hell!”"

You left out some things...

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/18/news/la-pn-maxine-waters-obama-20110818

“The Congressional Black Caucus loves the president, too. We're supportive of the president, but we're getting tired. We're getting tired. The unemployment is unconscionable. We don't know what the strategy is. We don't know why on this trip that he's in the United States now, he's not in any black community,” she said in an excerpt also broadcast."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/maxine-waters-to-tea-party-go-to-hell/2011/08/22/gIQAjgEeWJ_story.html

“We’ve had Democrats calling American citizens ‘terrorists’ and ‘hostage takers,’ and now an elected Democratic representative says that we can ‘go straight to hell,’” the group Tea Party Patriots said. “The president and all leaders of the Democratic Party, who have called for civility in the past, are neglecting to censure their own. Is civility only required from their opponents? Perhaps it’s time for a new-NEW era of civility. ... The president’s silence on these latest violations of civility has been deafening, but not surprising.”

Too bad so many of the teabaggies can't seem to follow the polies expoused on their site. They are typical of the sunday christians. They mouth the words buit don't practice what they preach!

Ironic that those least likely to become rich from lack of smarts are so sympathetic to wealth. Pigs sympathetic to butchers. We can't move them, only overcome them.

It deeply saddens me to read stuff like this. Wake up!

The Tea Party is the Enemy - Make no Apologies

Liberals are the enemy - no quarter will be given

The GOP politicians are so afraid of a Tea Party challenge in the primaries, they have become totally ineffective.

This is the most serious problem with the GOP; they are totally afraid of everything. Be it gays, Muslims, Tea Party, Democrats, whatever....they scream bloody murder and stick their heads in the ground like a bunch of ostriches. Remember all of the calls to American, "Be afraid, America...be very afraid..." of everything and anything during the Bush years. These people are the biggest cowards who claim to be patriots that I have ever seen. I fault the Dems for being so dysfunctional that they beat themselves to political death; yet, the alternative is a bunch of screamin', Meamie, cowards!

Is something good about in this world that the seeders can post in NV?

determined0a1

Yep, I am having a great weekend, four days :) :)

Uh yeah. Because things were humming along so smoothly before we had tea parties. Riiiigghhtt.

Hey, I'm not going to defend everyone in the tea parties. But I wouldn't defend everyone in any party and this is scapegoating. I haven't taken part in any of the tea parties, but I have to say that I have not seen a movement attacked by the media with so much energy from Day 1 as this movement has been. Sure Fox likes them, but aside from Fox, the media has mocked these people, called them stupid, racist, uninformed, anti-American, etc. and so forth from the very beginning.

It's a stereotype. It's bigotry. You don't like them or you don't agree them. You feel threatened by them. And so you dismiss them with all of these slurs and then scapegoat them by blaming them for everything that's wrong today.

To be sure, some in the tea parties do all of this with Barack Obama or just generally, anyone in government. It's wrong when anyone does it, but the Left is particularly prone to imagining themselves as "more tolerant" and thus they assume it would be impossible for them to stereotype or scapegoat. But that generous self-image is flat out wrong and creates an environment and an attitude that actually promotes bigotry.

malcontentious
Only lefty would go on record as saying Americans are the enemy of America

Oh come on, you commented on this seed this morning.
Right-wing commentator: Poor people voting is un-American

Well, here are my "good" news:

One friend is in home hospice.

Another friend has ovary cancer and has to have 2 chemo a week. Aggressive

And not the last in the order she has breast cancer Stage 3.

When we are exposed to the reality of life like lack of health and nothing can be done, how important the Dems/Republicans/Independents and TEA Party followers and non followers are important?

We all are going to die.

I have to say that I have not seen a movement attacked by the media with so much energy from Day 1 as this movement has been.

They are a threat to America and people need to hear it loud and clear. These are the same racists and bigots that we push back underground every 50 years. The ties between these bigoted racists are clear, just follow the money.

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

http://www.jbs.org/

http://www.masonicinfo.com/illuminati.htm

Determined,

I am very sorry to hear about your friends. Cancer is a mother@!$%#er and has taken a few people I know as well. I also have a few friends that have beat it, so keep your chin up my friend and know that many people on the vine will be keeping you in their thoughts.

Only lefty would go on record as saying Americans are the enemy of America

And only righty would be @!$%# enough to declare war on 98% of Americans. By the way, yes, in America true Patrioits call out those that would try and tear down 250 years of progress.

What is the Tea Party?

The Tea Party is a grassroots movement that calls awareness to any issue that challenges the security, sovereignty, or domestic tranquility of our beloved nation, the United States of America.

From our founding, the Tea Party is the voice of the true owners of the United States, WE THE PEOPLE.

Many claim to be the founders of this movement — however; it was the brave souls of the men and women in 1773, known today as the Boston Tea Party, who dared defy the greatest military might on earth.

We are the beneficiaries of their courage. By joining the Tea Party, you are taking a stand for our nation. You will be upholding the grand principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Non-negotiable 15 Core Beliefs

NON-NEGOTIABLE CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY
1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally.
2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
3. Stronger Military Is Essential.
4. Special Interests Eliminated.
5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
6. Government Must Be Downsized.
7. National Budget Must Be Balanced.
8. Deficit Spending Will End.
9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory.
12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
13. Intrusive Government Stopped.
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Non-negotiable beliefs? What is this a Christian crusade? Do they put you on the rack or drop you in boiling oil if you try and think for yourself? Not that it would matter, no one that is capable of thinking for themselves would ever associate with a bull@!$%# fascist party like the teatards.

Grass roots movement? More like an AstroTurf movement as they are about as fake as AstroTurf...

Non-negotioable beliefs?

no different than liberal ideology.... get over yourself... and get ready to live under those teaparty demands... 2012 is almost here.. the liberals run is almost over :)

no different than liberal ideology.... get over yourself... and get ready to live under those teaparty demands... 2012 is almost here.. the liberals run is almost over :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

From that definition...what exactly is your problem with liberal ideology?

like the current liberals actually follow that definition... LOL

I had thought liberals in America support the following...

1) ObamaCare

2) Illegals

3) the notion govt creates jobs

maybe I am wrong on this... so... are you saying to me or trying to tell me liberals in America oppose those 3 issues???

my stand on those three is fairly simple...

ObamaCare = unconstituional

Illegals = deport immediately

the notion the feds create jobs = insane or socialist.. take your pick

My best advice to the Tea Party: go to the dentist and get your teeth looked at, lose weight to avoid Type 2 diabetes, get a passport and visit nations with strong central governments and see how their quality of life compares to ours, study some economics, and return the filthy lucre of Dick Armey and the Koch Brothers-- and then, and only then, will you be taken as something more than a lethal combination of ignorance and power.

NON-SENSICAL CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY

1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally -- and they are here because the small businesses that fund the TP want them here -- HUGE fines and loss of business license for employing an illegal should do the trick nicely

2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable -- agreed

3. Stronger Military Is Essential -- possibly, that depends entirely on Chinese ambitions

4. Special Interests Eliminated -- agreed

5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred -- There is that word -- sacred -- absolute nonsense. Gun ownership is protected by the 2nd amendment -- nothing "sacred" about it, guns aren't mentioned in the bible.

6. Government Must Be Downsized -- If that means doing away with FEMA (as Ron Paul Suggests, or FDA, or...) then the idea is simply too stupid to discuss.

7. National Budget Must Be Balanced -- The national budget should be in surplus in good times and in deficit in bad -- Keynesian economics works (even Reagan knew that, that is why he spent his way out of a recession).

8. Deficit Spending Will End -- a constraint that will lengthen every recession and if implemented today will give you a more or less instant (and permanent) depression.

9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal -- the bailout was a Bush initiative and it was the right thing at the time. It saved you from a depression.

10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must -- a perfectly idiotic idea until the debt is payed off, but until the recovery gets moving, tax increases (except on the highest earners) are probably not a good idea.

11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory -- business can talk about having their taxes lowered once they start paying them. While we are at it, businesses are NOT people and should NOT be able to contribute a dime to ANY political activity. Businesses do NOT have a right to free (political) speech.

12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens -- not a terrible idea, but it won't happen without draconian campaign finance reform -- and I notice the TP isn't talking about anything like that.

13. Intrusive Government Stopped -- agreed, the idea that the government can tell a gay couple they can't marry (the most intrusive POSSIBLE act) is absolutely obscene, but I'll bet you like that kind of pathological intrusion.

14. English As Core Language Is Required -- Racist to the core. Anyone dealing with the government has an absolute right to deal in a language in which they are fluently competent.

15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged -- wonderful code words for the kind of racist homophobic bigotry that ensures I will NEVER vote for anyone supported by the TP.

like the current liberals actually follow that definition... LOL

They do.

1) ObamaCare

What is your idea?

2) Illegals

Needs to be dealt with.

3) the notion govt creates jobs

FDR. New Deal. Look into it.

are you saying to me or trying to tell me liberals in America oppose those issues???

Some do. Some don't. It is still a debate.

ObamaCare = unconstituional

I agree that federal mandate for purchasing anything is unconstitutional. But, that brings us to auto insurance...where do you stand on that? Are you okay with the "government" making the purchase of insurance for your car mandatory?

Illegals = deport immediately

You do that.

the notion the feds create jobs = insane or socialist.. take your pick

FDR. New Deal. Created jobs. Done by the government. Any questions?

All of that is a distraction from the first question. What is your problem with liberal ideology as defined in the link?

The Tea Party is grass roots Americans, we make no Apologies.

We know Obama's record on debt.....and we do not want more of the same.

At the close of business on Aug. 31 - for the first time in the history of the country - the publicly held debt of the federal government topped $10 trillion, according to data released by the U.S. Treasury Department at 4:00 p.m. yesterday.

During Obama's presidency, debt held by the public has now increased by $3.71694 trillion - or almost 59 percent from the $6.3073 trillion in debt held by the public that the government owed to its creditors on Jan. 20, 2009, when Obama was inaugurated.

Gird your loins, the tea party is throwing Obama overboard.

ICEMAN.....if I speak English, I'm Racist ? I think I see "Desperation", Pathetic desperate Democrat propaganda. Try something else, that one isn't gonna sell, and neither will the other baloney excuses for Obama's Kensian eco terror of the last 32 months.

Gird your loins, the tea party is throwing Obama overboard.

I make no predictions about elections, but don't recent polls demonstrate support of the Tea Party at an all-time low?

At the close of business on Aug. 31 - for the first time in the history of the country - the publicly held debt of the federal government topped $10 trillion, according to data released by the U.S. Treasury Department at 4:00 p.m. yesterday.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/07/debt-limit-debate-round-up/

During Obama's presidency, debt held by the public has now increased by $3.71694 trillion - or almost 59 percent from the $6.3073 trillion in debt held by the public that the government owed to its creditors on Jan. 20, 2009, when Obama was inaugurated.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/07/debt-limit-debate-round-up/

Do you ever feel like a toady?

The tea party is not running for President, it's voting for a president and his/her Policies.

It's not a single organization whose leader can be attacked, it's a Nationwide grass roots movement with many leaders and made up of many organizations. DC, 912, maybe you noticed ?

Democrats are now 30 percenters, which is the same as Obama's "approval" ratings. Obama has a record of his first 32 months, and Americans do not like it.

At the close of business on Aug. 31 - for the first time in the history of the country - the publicly held debt of the federal government topped $10 trillion, according to data released by the U.S. Treasury Department at 4:00 p.m. yesterday.

During Obama's presidency, debt held by the public has now increased by $3.71694 trillion - or almost 59 percent from the $6.3073 trillion in debt held by the public that the government owed to its creditors on Jan. 20, 2009, when Obama was inaugurated.

1) ObamaCare

What is your idea?

http://captainobvioussays.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/09/5801698-the-us-department-of-health-and-human-services-healthcare-proposal

did not think I had one ey????

It's not a single organization whose leader can be attacked, it's a Nationwide grass roots movement with many leaders and made up of many organizations.

Al Qaida does that too.

did not think I had one ey????

I knew you did. I searched your post history before asking. Your idea depends largely on BIG government. How do you reconcile that with your Tea Party narrative of smaller government?

The Tea Party is grass roots Americans...

D'hohohohohoho the lies we tell ourselves.

The so-called grassroots movement is hardly inclusive, having been to one of these rallies myself. They are a Corporate spokesbody with an ignorant angry mob at their disposal. You only have to look at the policies they have advocated to realize that. When a few here posted the 15 core beliefs, it might as well have read "here, put on these blinders! the more you say it, the more it becomes true!"

1.41

Non-negotiable beliefs?

Tea Party Leader: We'll Take The Debt Ceiling Hike If You Put Gay Troops Back In The Closet

(Seriously...that was their threat)

Al Qaida has a better grasp of the english language than most tea 'partiers' as well.

I'm just saying.....

so keep your chin up my friend and know that many people on the vine will be keeping you in their thoughts.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the words and positive thoughts of my friendly antagonists.

Haytre

....Uh....your July 29th "fact check" artilce disputing the Aug.31st Federal Government's release of Debt numbers, makes who feel like a "toady" ? Gee, the new fact check of the future unreleased facts.....LOL.

Liberals amaze me, they support the "Big government" nannie state Politicians, but don't accept the reality of the same.

DJ Jazzy JayTee,

....Uh....your July 29th "fact check" artilce disputing the Aug.31st Federal Government's release of Debt numbers, makes who feel like a "toady" ? Gee, the new fact check of the future unreleased facts.....LOL.

You are a toady. I was being nice. The facts are outlined in the link. Dispute the three days if you want, it is irrelevant to the point you were asserting.

Liberals amaze me, they support the "Big government" nannie state Politicians, but don't accept the reality of the same.

LOL @ "nannie state". You are regurgitating what have heard pundits say on conservative media programming.

And this is my favorite part of "debate" on the vine. Now that I have given you some facts, you will now direct you anger and derision towards me personally as though you are a church figure during the Inquisition.

So bring it...what's next? Clever misspellings of my name? Wild accusations of child hating? Drug use? Oppression of the rich? Class warfare? Liberal conspiracies? Whatcha got? Remember the CoH, but I'm interested now so, I will suspend my right to report you because I really want to know where YOU want this to go.....

Clever misspellings of my name? Wild accusations of child hating? Drug use? Oppression of the rich? Class warfare? Liberal conspiracies?

I think they usually wave the flag in your face and thump on the bible before they start that other crap.

Your idea depends largely on BIG government. How do you reconcile that with your Tea Party narrative of smaller government?

you did not read it all... it specifically does not grow federal government but leaves that power to the states....

so... go fish

I think they usually wave the flag in your face and thump on the bible before they start that other crap.

Oh yeah. Thank you! I forgot that part. We still have yet to question my patriotism and affiliation to a belief structure.

*snicker*

Well, let's get to it....

you did not read it all...

I didn't need to. You start off with taking money from folks who don't have it and go on from there. It is the same thing as ObamaCare just with a tinge of bullying menace.

it specifically does not grow federal government but leaves that power to the states....

A cute switcharoo that doesn't hold water. Your idea, and indeed your entire political narrative, seems to take the position that states have better and more resources than the collective of federal government. Which is stupid.

so... go fish

It's a rotten idea if I'm chatting with you or enjoying my day on a dock. So, that won't save your idea either.

I can't believe that people actually collapsed post number 1.7! Just because it was a differing point of view! I can only figure that there are a bunch of Marxists around who hate the constitution of the United States! I hold no political affiliations, but I find it very shameful that there would be people out there doing this! I can only assume it's leftists and extreme rightists. Or it's gangs of foreigners who are jealous of our country! Anybody who doesn't believe in our constitution who is an American citizen, please feel free to leave the country if you don't like it here!

From what I have seen the tea party is not your enemy! You are! Take your anger out on the government not your neighbors! And if you're a foreigner you have no business discussing American politics trying to stir up the kettles of hate! Clean up your own countries dirty laundry before you start criticizing your neighbors.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANYTHING IN THAT SOCIALIST PROPAGANDA ARTICLE?!?!?!?!?

OH MY GOD!!!!!!

Your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy. You anti-American, socialists have tried every dirty trick in Saul Alinsky's, Cloward and Piven's, Bill Ayer's, Howard Dean and Jeremiah Wright's rule books. You have called us racists, terrorists, radicals, extremists and teabaggers. You have falsely accused us of spitting on people, calling them the N-word, claiming we want to lynch you and we've been told to go to hell. Jared Loughner shoots Gabby Giffords and before the barrel of the gun cools off the socialist Liberal Lamestream media are already blaming Sarah Palin for targets and the TEA Party, just because that's what they do,,,LIE!

No proof, just hypocritical, vitriolic lies.

When the TEA Party has a rally the place is left cleaner than when it started. Look at the difference between the pristine Lincoln Memorial that was left after Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally and the pig-sty after the mob at the Obama Inauguration, Colbert's "Restoring Truthiness" and the violent mobs rioting in Madison Wisconsin and vandalizing the State Capitol for over $1 MILLION Dollars in damage.

THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE! Remember? More like what RIOTS look like.

14 coward Liberal Progressive senators flee the state of Wisconsin in shame because they can't bribe, lie or extort anyone to get their way, impeding the legislative process. Teachers leave work without approval, dragging the poor students behind them to try and make everyone think they support the riots. The kids didn't even know why they were there. They didn't even know who the Governor was (tenure and pensions before literacy). Teachers getting fake doctors excuses so they can get paid for participating in violent protests instead of teaching. Unions shipping in their thug goons from out of state to intimidate and threaten local business owners if they don't join their strong-arm tactics activism.

THIS IS THE TRUE FACE OF LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES!

You all now you made a horrible and inexcusable mistake in 2008 by voting in this inexperienced, incompetent Junior Senator as president. His socialist policies and irrational Keynesian economics have caused us to lose our envied AAA bond-rating. Progressivism is a failure and it's finally being exposed for the fraudulent system it truly is. Real Americans realize this BECAUSE of the TEA Party. 2012 will be a continuation of the 2010 referendum. The TEA Party has learned. We are infiltrating State and Local Precinct committeemen positions and influencing our agenda the way a Republic is supposed to be, legally, honorably and patriotically.

So go ahead sit here and keep wasting your time writing these ridiculous propaganda pieces, America no longer believes any of it. Leave it to us to fix what you have been destroying for nearly 100 years. We will not only restore honor to our great Federal Constitutional Republic but we will also return exceptionalism to its rightful place in America.

PS You do realize when you call us teabaggers that makes you TEABAGGEES, right? Here's the definition of a tebaggee:

a “teabaggee” is the one who accepts the bag from the teabaggers. You can find a more descriptive definition here, urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabaggee

Hate and anger can only take a Party so far,

Allen, that statement sums up what being a Liberal is all about.

you did not read it all...

I didn't need to. You start off with taking money from folks who don't have it

but the insurance ObamaCare forces everyone to buy is free huh?

your dismissed

Rereg troll...

markmich

Very well said!!! (standing ovation)

Nightbreeeze

Rereg troll...

???? Who are you talking about?

YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANYTHING IN THAT SOCIALIST PROPAGANDA ARTICLE?!?!?!?!?

That's the problem with you folks. You don't understand the difference between "knowledge" and "belief".

OH MY GOD!!!!!!

Leave room for Jesus.

Your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy.

Strong accusation.

You anti-American, socialists have tried every dirty trick in Saul Alinsky's, Cloward and Piven's, Bill Ayer's, Howard Dean and Jeremiah Wright's rule books.

Aaaand, pull out denigrating references, now you're guilty by association. Well done! 10!

You have called us racists, terrorists, radicals, extremists and teabaggers.

The Tea Party operates like Al Qaida, pushes a religious agenda, puts money before citizens and act like know-it-all jerks. What did you think was going to happen?

You have falsely accused us of spitting on people, calling them the N-word, claiming we want to lynch you and we've been told to go to hell.

It must be everyone else because it all makes sense to you!

Jared Loughner shoots Gabby Giffords and before the barrel of the gun cools off the socialist Liberal Lamestream media are already blaming Sarah Palin for targets and the TEA Party, just because that's what they do,,,LIE!

Or, it was an outline as to how the visceral nature of the discourse is being represented by political marketers.

No proof, just hypocritical, vitriolic lies.

The proof is in the action.

When the TEA Party has a rally the place is left cleaner than when it started. Look at the difference between the pristine Lincoln Memorial that was left after Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally and the pig-sty after the mob at the Obama Inauguration, Colbert's "Restoring Truthiness" and the violent mobs rioting in Madison Wisconsin and vandalizing the State Capitol for over $1 MILLION Dollars in damage.

Well, around 50 people showed up to hear Becks BS. Mobs of folks showed to the other events. Not hard to do the math on that one.

THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE! Remember? More like what RIOTS look like.

Why can't everyone just do as you say?

14 coward Liberal Progressive senators flee the state of Wisconsin in shame because they can't bribe, lie or extort anyone to get their way, impeding the legislative process. Teachers leave work without approval, dragging the poor students behind them to try and make everyone think they support the riots. The kids didn't even know why they were there. They didn't even know who the Governor was (tenure and pensions before literacy). Teachers getting fake doctors excuses so they can get paid for participating in violent protests instead of teaching. Unions shipping in their thug goons from out of state to intimidate and threaten local business owners if they don't join their strong-arm tactics activism.

Uh huh. Well you have worked it all out in your head. And that must be a clown car of logical ideas. /s

THIS IS THE TRUE FACE OF LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES!

Alarming.

You all now you made a horrible and inexcusable mistake in 2008 by voting in this inexperienced, incompetent Junior Senator as president. His socialist policies and irrational Keynesian economics have caused us to lose our envied AAA bond-rating. Progressivism is a failure and it's finally being exposed for the fraudulent system it truly is. Real Americans realize this BECAUSE of the TEA Party. 2012 will be a continuation of the 2010 referendum. The TEA Party has learned. We are infiltrating State and Local Precinct committeemen positions and influencing our agenda the way a Republic is supposed to be, legally, honorably and patriotically.

Because one thing follows another, it doesn't mean one thing causes another.

So go ahead sit here and keep wasting your time writing these ridiculous propaganda pieces, America no longer believes any of it. Leave it to us to fix what you have been destroying for nearly 100 years. We will not only restore honor to our great Federal Constitutional Republic but we will also return exceptionalism to its rightful place in America.

Looks to me like a lot of folks do their own thinking for themselves. You should try it.

PS You do realize when you call us teabaggers that makes you TEABAGGEES, right? Here's the definition of a tebaggee:

Bro....that isn't something you can deflect by owning it...I...oh, well...

a “teabaggee” is the one who accepts the bag from the teabaggers. You can find a more descriptive definition here, urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabaggee

While I'm sure you are titillated by the idea of playing with testicles, if you, and your Tea Party representatives wish to be taken seriously, I suggest a rigorous study in civics, sociology, economics and math. And never even address the "teabagger" thing. If you own it, you look like an idiot. If you say nothing, it's just a vicious attack.

ET, anyone who is not a Lefty is a re-reg troll. They're so paranoid they see Driftwood around every corner.

I suggest a rigorous study in civics, sociology, economics and math.

Hell, most of them could get a good start by learning to read.

Not surprising the amount of anti-teaparty vitriol coming off an article bashing the teaparty. The more germane question would be, what do you propose? Ok, so what should happen in the future? What do all the anti-teaparty people suggest as viable working models for how this country should get out of debt? Or does the debt even concern you?

do you have workable models for the future or is the only thing being offered a continuation of demagoguery? It is easy to bash and name call, it is far more difficult to come up with ideas that are viable. I note that the democrats only seem to offer more spending and borrowing. Is that truly the way to run a government? Where is the money to come from (outside of borrowing) beyond tax the rich, tax the corporations? You do understand that if you took all the money from the rich and the corporations that the debt would still be massive. Of course, asking about the debt seems to be a rhetorical question here.

Great seed...thanks, required reading for all Dems.

As far as economic policy goes, Palin says to stop taxing corporations,

http://biggovernment.com/jjmnolte/2011/09/03/root-causes-in-iowa-sarah-palin-lays-out-a-governing-philosophy-that-should-worry-both-sides-of-the-aisle/

and Bachman says to make Glen Beck the economic advisor,

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/michele-bachman-glenn-beck-can-solve-our-financial-problems.php

The solution will arrive after the Tea Party is gone in 2012 because they are intending to obstruct all the real solutions.

Expire the tax cuts for the rich TODAY -- reduces annual deficit from 1.3T to 0.5T.

Look seriously at setting a government run single payer health care system up in DIRECT competition to the health insurance companies. We pay twice as much (as a percent of GDP) as the countries in Europe, don't have universal health care and our health care ranks right up there just behind Turkey in effectiveness -- potential savings if we adopt the European system 1T/yr, and we would get better care.

POOF -- solved.

Or take the 'baggie approach ... vicious vacuous cuts to the budget and get an instant (and permanent) depression. There is a reason Wall Street calls it the TP downgrade.

Your call.

Well, my work here is done. I have left you lowly self-pitying Liberal Progressives with more food for thought than you'll be able to digest in a week.

As I read the posts from the Liberal Progressives here and on other blogs I realize arguing with them is similar to shadow boxing.

After 15 minutes 2 undeniable truths emerge.

1. I’m tired.

2. I always win.

With that I'll leave you Teabaggee's to your self-emasculating practices and return another day to correct your projections and delusions. In the meantime keep wasting your time here self-aggrandizing yourselves to each each other. In the meantime the TEA Party and real Americans are preparing for the battle of the century in 2012, just as we did in 2010.

Remember, historic elections don't just happen by themselves. We have the pulse of the nation on our side, polls are shifting and opinions are changing. We will do everything we can to restore our great country to the Federal Constitutional Republic our Framer's intended and you Liberal Progressives so despise.

Continue with your pity-party while we fix America.

Actually, I don't want my country "fixed" by the uneducated and stupid.

iceman: agreed with removing the insurance companies from Healthcare. There is no way a business can compete with the Federal Government so said business would go out of business. As to a single payer system, what is to prevent the government from turning this into another Post Office overrun and overbudget? Do you think a healthcare 'czar' or single person should be in charge of such a massive department? One of the problems with providing healthcare to 350,000 million people is paying for it without rationing. Witness Britain and the protests going on over rationing. Do you think removing tax loopholes will pay for ever escalating medical costs?

Healthcare is ALWAYS rationed. Right now your insurance company rations it. In fact it is the ONLY way they can reduce their costs is to deny coverage. Unless you have a VERY unusual policy, it is likely that you can't even take them to court but are limited to arbitration.

The European experience is simple, it costs less (% of GDP) and the results are better pretty much across the board. Our system does better in areas where diagnostic imaging is involved because we WILDLY overuse diagnostic imaging because that is what doctors and hospitals SELL because they know they will be paid BEFORE the service is rendered.

That said, France has an interesting system that mandates a basic level of coverage and allows insurance companies to compete in selling upgrades to the basic level. Once again, their costs are a little over half what ours are (% of GDP) and the effectiveness is MUCH higher.

As long as the economy is such that said system is sustainable then it works great. Our system (non-system) is such that people have to declare bancruptcy after a catastrohic illness. The concern, as always, is how to pay for it. Does France keep a lid on rising medical costs and if so, how?

There are other issues besides healthcare. How would you deal with SS, since the government keeps putting that money into the general fund? Then, addressing the debt, as I stated in my earlier post, the debt is such that taking ALL the money from the rich and corporations still would not cover the debt or the spiraling interest rates on the debt.

Iceman6--

To your very sensible proposals, I would add ending two obscenely costly wars, and other military adventurism. That would go a long way to righting the fiscal ship. We should learn something from the dissolution of the USSR after Afghanistan.

...as I stated in my earlier post, the debt is such that taking ALL the money from the rich and corporations still would not cover the debt or the spiraling interest rates on the debt.

Simply rolling back the Bush tax cuts takes care of 0.7T of the current 1.3T deficit, so the view that taking "all the money" won't close the shortfall is simply wrong (it is, by the way, a common misconception fostered by HARD work from the far right). That simple fix, and fixing health care (just making us as efficient as the Europeans) not only erases the deficit but gives us 0.5T/year surplus to pay down the debt. Those two plus ending the wars gives us 0.9T/yr surplus to pay down the debt -- at that rate and with the low T-bill rates, we'd be at 0 debt in about 16 years (even with a small rise in interest rates as the economy recovers).

Taking Barney Frank's suggestion simply to remove the cap on FICA earnings makes SS sound forever. That one would cost me a lot of money, but it may be the right idea.

As for controlling costs, the European health care systems are not perfect, but they focus on effectiveness. This means that they DON"T spend 60% of their lifetime healthcare costs in the last year of life. They are not wildly overusing diagnostic imaging. They are also not paying for wallet-ectomys in which the doctor and hospital blow through a dying patients insurance to the limit and then move them to the hospice to die.

The thing that you have to understand is that we DO have universal care in the US. The uninsured show up at the emergency room where they CAN'T BY LAW be turned away. We give them care LATE in the disease cycle, and in the most expensive POSSIBLE environment. We send a bill, they don't pay, and the hospital enters THE WHOLE BILL as a loss on their P&L. That loss flows directly into their overhead, and is reflected in the quotes they give the health insurance companies. The insurance companies add their obscene 31% "administrative" fees, and their 13% profit and then quote it to you in the form of increased premiums. And we wonder why our health insurance premiums go up every year. This one is going to KILL American health care as more and more folks lose their health insurance.

iceman: agreed re healthcare. Unfortunaltely the current HCR bill does nothing to address those issues. Not so agreeable with raising cap on SS. That has been done many times, starting in 1951. They just keep raising the threshold to get more money. Perhaps making SS money exempt from the general fund would go much further there. I noticed that you didn't address who would run the healthcare system. I have a grave concern with one person in charge.

Hayte--

I read all your posts on this thread. You're in fine form, substantively and stylistically well done. Kudos (no Kash).

I have a grave concern with one person in charge.

I share that concern and the concern about HCR. We are talking about 16% of GDP (should be 9% like the Europeans, but it is 16%), that is one hell of a lot of money and there are a LOT of commercial interests out after a piece of that pie.

One of the problems with the government is that corporations have discovered that they can buy our elected representatives and they are doing so. Then they ask for a piece of the pie from their "tame" representative.

I think draconian campaign finance reform would fix a lot of this, but it will be a near-impossible sell. It IS an issue on which Democrats and the Tea Party might agree and ram it through past the corporate interests. THAT would be fun to watch.

Hayte--

I read all your posts on this thread. You're in fine form, substantively and stylistically well done. Kudos (no Kash).

Thanks Sam. Sometimes I feel a bit wordy reading your posts. You seem to wrap things up with a few short, well designed sentences and I, well....I seem to enjoy picking at the subtext. :p

Sometimes I feel a bit wordy reading your posts.

They don't seem long, Hayte, not when you infuse your comments with such wit and trenchant analysis.

Captain Obvious #1.31

"

Liberals are the enemy - no quarter will be given"

You continue to repeat tough sounding rhetoric, but never do anything.

I urge you and your compatriots to try something. The sooner you do, the sooner we will crush the anti-American conservative movement.

To the title of the article...YOU are too late: Obama already used that one and called us that right before the election and you see what that got you, didn't you? A drumming at the polls...so, that card is up, back to square one for you. Racist doesn't work anymore either...just sayin'.

Secondly, apparently you missed this whoever was trying to rip the Tea party platform:

NON-NEGOTIABLE CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY:

1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally.
2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
3. Stronger Military Is Essential.
4. Special Interests Eliminated.
5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
6. Government Must Be Downsized.
7. National Budget Must Be Balanced.
8. Deficit Spending Will End.
9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory.
12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
13. Intrusive Government Stopped.
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

"Common Sense Constitutional Conservative Self-Governance Is Our Mode Of Operation"

(Yes, We Are A Christian Nation) You don't have to be a Christian to enjoy freedom. The Tea Party welcomes all Red Blooded U.S. Citizens.

Oh my goodness, you miss the 15 points above that the majority of American can agree with an focus on 5 words in parentheses...is that what got you libbies all worked up into a lather? Yeah, well, that makes sense since most progressives are marxists...I mean what's good for the goose....

Hayte,

I'd love to see your sources for your post 1.72...LOL, you aren't even in the ballpark.

Iceman

Actually, I don't want my country "fixed" by the uneducated and stupid.

Never mind that is a COH violation...but you mean like these geniuses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hZtW_q_6Ug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VAzOIT4Ef8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxdj-ZwKNZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTjlAd-GXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmRXH7RkCZQ&playnext=1&list=PL2666DD36D85D2C11

and these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9hZpJp7U3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNr66HHhMjs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udParB8uo4M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxBX8sz3tO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmIB4em_hIo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap2Cg_FDRy4

Have a nice another hatefilled night here on the vine...you'll love the links, btw...from the current intellectual giants (LOL!!)residing at 1600 PA Ave and the States Naval Observatory (couldn't have named that one better myself... unless it was Number 2 Colonoscopy Drive)

The Tea Party lost the GRASS ROOTS credibility portion of its existence when they took big money. That money being Koch Bros. Local TP leader admitted to it. If it happened here I AM positive that it has happened every where. That has lost any and all credibility to it being GRASS ROOTS . It is now CORPORATE funded = lost credibility as grass roots. Sorry. \

As far as Youtube goofs we can go tit for tat.

Hayte,

I'd love to see your sources for your post 1.72...LOL, you aren't even in the ballpark.

The entirety of that post is opinion. You look like a complete moron asking for sources.

They don't seem long, Hayte, not when you infuse your comments with such wit and trenchant analysis.

Thanks again Sam! :) I honestly thought no one ever read my stuff. Like I said, I hope to be on your level one day.

Once again it is the evil American people who are the enemy of the Democrat

But also let us not forget the democrats other enemies

1. Accoutability...cant hold themselves accountable for their actions.

2. math....cant balance a budget

Oh, so you throw crap out there like it's reality and fact based:

The Tea Party operates like Al Qaida

really? How so?

pushes a religious agenda

Really? Give me some examples.

Well, around 50 people showed up to hear Becks BS. Mobs of folks showed to the other events.

really? Again, you butt can be handed to you on this one as well. Please, your pseudo intellectualism doesn't wear so well on you.

And you have the audacity to call me a moron for asking for your sources. You MADE the friggin claims now back them up! It's called Debate 101. So, we'll wait and wait and wait becasue you are just mouthing off your blathering opinion as fact. You, of course, are entitled to your own opinions but not your own set of facts...

Malcontentious...those EVIL American people!! LOL!

This racist BS didn't fly before and only the ignorant are buying into it now. He who does not remember the past is doomed to repeat it.

NON-NEGOTIABLE CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY:John Birch Society:

1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally.
2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
3. Stronger Military Is Essential.
4. Special Interests Eliminated.
5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
6. Government Must Be Downsized.
7. National Budget Must Be Balanced.
8. Deficit Spending Will End.
9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory.
12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
13. Intrusive Government Stopped.
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

"Common Sense Constitutional Conservative Self-Governance Is Our Mode Of Operation"

(Yes, We Are A Christian Nation) You don't have to be a Christian to enjoy freedom. The John Birch Society welcomes all Red Blooded U.S. Citizens.

Ahhcrap,

Is this sarc. or can you actually show that the TP has simply adopted the platform of the John Birch society wholesale ... which would be a FUN link to drop into a LOT of conversations here on the vine.

Either way, they are clearly following the same well worn nationalist path.

Let's give it a try. The current leadership of the Karl Marx Society running the Presidency and Senate and until that glorious day in November 2010, the House of Representatives, has certainly gotten America into a mess and filled her with misery, unemployment, hopelessness, and poverty.

The current leadership of the Karl Marx Society running the Presidency and Senate

You need to go read the history of the end of the Weimar Republic. Then you need to sit down and think VERY seriously about where you and your friends are trying to take America.

You might also read the writings of those who wrote the First Amendment and recognize that the religious right is EXACTLY the threat they were worried about. They would be appalled by today's "christian" right.

I know where I'm trying to take America and the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

I know where your team has taken America, and the unemployment, food stamp dependence, failed schools with ignorant graduates, declining standard of living, home foreclosures, stifling taxation and regulation, and tyrannical overstepping of the Constitutional bounds is hideous, sickening.

I want to return to freedom and liberty. I want equality under the law and under law enforcement. I want every American to take care of themselves and their families to the best of their abilities of suffer the consequences they bring upon themselves. I want taxes to be the burden of all, and the consequences of voting, good or bad, to be felt by all. I want opportunities to abound outside the purview of the national government and free of any central planning.

The Founders would be glad someone is defending the rights they understood to be eternally guaranteed by God and stipulated in the Constitution.

If you won't do the homework, teacher can't help you.

You want exactly what the "good" German's wanted in Weimar Germany, and like them you are following the wrong leaders in the wrong direction. The parallels are getting pretty scary.

If there is a parallel it is the Obama regime whipping up the people against Christians and Jews, empowering the thuggish unions, selectively enforcing the law, growing a closed-door back room crony capitalism system for election engineering funding, and having little or no regard for life.

Like many of our public school teachers, you obviously hold your teacher position by other than merit.

Markmich

The Dictionary has yet to catch up to the Tea party. Here is the latest...

Tea Bagger : One who Bags democrats in office and send them home from DC, or elminates their majority leadership.

Tea Baggee: Nancy Pelosi.

LIAR: Barry Obama on the EPA Ozone rules. Ex., environmental groups were going to file a lawsuit in 2009 about Bush-era ozone rules, and the Obama administration told them, in effect, “Wait, don’t hassle us with a lawsuit, we’re going to propose stricter rules soon.” So the stricter rules were proposed, and the White House has now said, “Sorry, changed our mind.”

If you won't do the homework, teacher can't help you.

Your complaints are eerily similar to those voiced in the beer halls in Munich in the late 20's in response to virtually identical problems. The rhetoric was to return Germany to its "true" values and "true" traditions to "defend" the Vaterland and restore it to former glory and better times.

And there was nothing wrong with what was said. It was what was done that created trouble. Just like with Obama. His actions tell us where he's taking us and that would be where Germany went, just a different team of thugs and goons and tyrants in charge this time around.

Obama wants to return the seas to their better times, return the atmosphere to its pre-man condition, move America up to the utopia only he can achieve for Americans. Obama never liked America so he doesn't want to return us anywhere, he wants to conquer and purge and smear our image and history. Obama's speech grandiosity is precisly Hitlerian. His actions are proving just as dangerous and destructive, but with different motivations, different scapegoats, different distractions. Obama is a totalitarian minded punk, no doubt, indisputable.

If you won't do the homework, teacher can't help you.

Sadly you don't have enough historical understanding to carry your half of the conversation. You keep making my points for me, but since you haven't the historical basis for comparison you can't see the parallel.

Go away and read the history of the rise of the Third Reich and decide for yourself which side of the current debate you want to join. History says pretty plainly that you are on the wrong side now.

The little speech you just made could have come directly from the mouths of the SA in Munich in 1929. Word for word.

Beer Putch is next ... "take the country back..."

after that is is getting pretty late to turn around.

Whatever. I'm grading your critical thinking skills and grasp of history with an F, the same I give Obama and Democrats for their fulfillment of their Constitutional duties and their Constitutional fidelity.

We obviously need a new government program for you -- No Teacher Left Behind.

Anyone that starts their argument with "whatever" is rather weak. Sounds like something my 14 year old granddaughter would use.

Don't bother, hand him a social pass and move on.

Alleged adults jumping in to a discussion that is not their business using "Anyone" to start their baseless generalization argument is rather weak, something a public school dyseducated prepubescent know-it-all might try.

The "Whatever", or an "Anyway" was from the comedic routine of a stand-up whose name I don't recall, where he let us in on the little secret that the insertion of those words into a conversation flow was code language for "f*** you".

Are you one of those teachers they pay to stay in the rubber room, collecting a salary, paid to stay away from the kids?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/disgraced-teacher-enjoys-well-paid-13th-year-in-rubber-room-after-sexually-molesting-6th-grade-student/

Obamalsgodawful,

I think this quote is especialy relevant for the tea party types

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."~Adolf Hitler

really mark, i dont believe the statement of we have to pass it to see whats in it came from the tea party.

really mark, i dont believe the statement of we have to pass it to see whats in it came from the tea party.

Really jester. I don't believe that is what Pelosi said. As a matter of fact it was NOT what she said. She said we would have to pass the bill out of committee in order to know what will be in it. You are aware of the amendment process aren't you? Well excuse me of course you're not since you posted this ignorant bull@!$%#.

markmich

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANYTHING IN THAT SOCIALIST PROPAGANDA ARTICLE?!?!?!?!?

OH MY GOD!!!!!!

Your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy. You anti-American, socialists have tried every dirty trick in Saul Alinsky's, Cloward and Piven's, Bill Ayer's, Howard Dean and Jeremiah Wright's rule books. You have called us racists, terrorists, radicals, extremists and teabaggers. You have falsely accused us of spitting on people, calling them the N-word, claiming we want to lynch you and we've been told to go to hell. Jared Loughner shoots Gabby Giffords and before the barrel of the gun cools off the socialist Liberal Lamestream media are already blaming Sarah Palin for targets and the TEA Party, just because that's what they do,,,LIE!

You get an A+ for listening and reciting word for word the right wing propaganda Bull @!$%#, same old stuff, all the time

First it was

MADISON, Wis., March 4 (UPI) -- Wisconsin officials conceded Friday round-the-clock protests in the Statehouse in Madison appeared to have done little damage to the building

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/04/Damage-to-Wisconsin-Statehouse-in-question/UPI-59661299274055/#ixzz1X10kb746

Then the Reps changed their minds, they hyped it up for "glory"

Officials Evaluate Possible Damage To Capitol After Protests

Officials Back Off $7.5M Capitol Cleanup Estimate

Updated: 11:22 am CST March 6, 2011

MADISON, Wis. -- Wisconsin officials now say the cost to repair damage at the state Capitol could be as low as $350,000.

Department of Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch said the original $7.5 million estimate to repair marble damaged by adhesive tape from posters was a "high-end" estimate. An updated report from DOA said a majority of the nearly $350,000 would cover a crew to perform "very limited" restoration on marble as well as landscape restoration.

http://www.channel3000.com/politics/27086210/detail.html

this is just one example, WAKE UP TO THEIR L

First it was

MADISON, Wis., March 4 (UPI) -- Wisconsin officials conceded Friday round-the-clock protests in the Statehouse in Madison appeared to have done little damage to the building

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/04/Damage-to-Wisconsin-Statehouse-in-question/UPI-59661299274055/#ixzz1X10kb746

Then the Reps changed their minds, they hyped it up for "glory"

Officials Evaluate Possible Damage To Capitol After Protests

Officials Back Off $7.5M Capitol Cleanup Estimate

Updated: 11:22 am CST March 6, 2011

MADISON, Wis. -- Wisconsin officials now say the cost to repair damage at the state Capitol could be as low as $350,000.

Department of Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch said the original $7.5 million estimate to repair marble damaged by adhesive tape from posters was a "high-end" estimate. An updated report from DOA said a majority of the nearly $350,000 would cover a crew to perform "very limited" restoration on marble as well as landscape restoration.

http://www.channel3000.com/politics/27086210/detail.html

this is just one example, WAKE UP TO THEIR LIES

markmich

They are feeding you Bull @!$%#, they are USING you and you fall for it.

We are LOAO at YOU

MJL-3

that is all Markmich has, the cut and paste Rovian policy for smearing and deflecting. He quotes the tea party mantra ad naseum and does so repeately over and over in the same article and over any he posts on. I believe him to be a paid pubbie/ tea troll.

marklepew

Got it. Thanks :)

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."~Adolf Hitler

And hence the use of "Hope and Change". Very appealing to the simple-minded with no grasp on history.

MJL-3

Wisconsin officials now say the cost to repair damage at the state Capitol could be as low as $350,000.

So. ONLY in the convoluted delusional mind of a Liberal Progressive is ONLY $350,000 dollars of damage to the State Capitol acceptable. Had that been a TEA Party protest we would still be hearing about it from the Liberal Lamestream media about the terrorism and anger.

Lie I said, your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy.

In most common-sense, responsible, mannered societies $1 DOLLAR of damage is considered excessive. What compels you Liberal Progressives to assume that everything you do in the name of social and economic justice for the collective is acceptable? Even to the point of vandalism, violent protests, bribery, racketeering and extortion.

Would you accept an enraged mob to come to your home and cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage just because they have an agenda? NO! But here, as this violent and at times out of control mob scene the world was subjected to, was somehow, acceptable.

I think you need to reevaluate who is feeding who BULLS**T. You certainly are being fed quite a bit of it by the socialists and their bourgeios elititsts that can't wait to reduce all of you into their wonderful proletariat.

Correction to post #1.121

Lie I said, your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy.

Should read as,,,

Like I said, your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy.

I never lie.

Oh, so you throw crap out there like it's reality and fact based:

*sigh*

Okay, let's do this...

The Tea Party operates like Al Qaida

really? How so?

No one leader and operates in cells so the collective can accept responsibility or have "plausible deniability" depending on the current agenda.

pushes a religious agenda

Really? Give me some examples.

Ron Paul. Rick Scott. Michelle Bachman(n?).

Well, around 50 people showed up to hear Becks BS. Mobs of folks showed to the other events.

really? Again, you butt can be handed to you on this one as well. Please, your pseudo intellectualism doesn't wear so well on you.

It was hyperbole. :) For the sake of humor in OPINION.

And you have the audacity to call me a moron for asking for your sources.

You asked for sources on the internet for my opinion. I don't need one. Asking for one is moronic.

You MADE the friggin claims now back them up!

I posted an opinion.

It's called Debate 101.

No. It's just an opinion.

So, we'll wait and wait and wait becasue you are just mouthing off your blathering opinion as fact.

*eats a crayon*

You, of course, are entitled to your own opinions but not your own set of facts...

Can I have a pony and one of those plastic rockets too?

Malcontentious...those EVIL American people!! LOL!

Shadow boxing looks tough. But, it just looks tough.

So, there ya go, tiger. I don't like your political party. I think it is a bunch of reactionary pinheads who need to be lead around by the nose by "leaders" because they are either too lazy or too unintelligent to learn the process of government on their own. And, to top it all off, they act like tampon tough guys about it.

That is my opinion...if you need the source, look in a mirror.

religious agenda?

And you list people...LMBO. people are not an agenda; unless of course, America is marxist now becasue we have BO, a marxist in office...see how that works?

The Tea Party operates like Al Qaida

really? How so?

No one leader and operates in cells so the collective can accept responsibility or have "plausible deniability" depending on the current agenda.

yeah, oh, really? Those dang sleeper cells at the Tea Party rallies are making bombs, huh? ~sarc~ Try reality, friend . I am done wasting time with elementary thinkers who can't back up their bullcrap claims... and throw crap up against a wal to see what sticks and as a retort do more of the same...pathetic.

I never lie

Ah bull@!$%#!

markmich

MJL-3

Wisconsin officials now say the cost to repair damage at the state Capitol could be as low as $350,000.

So. ONLY in the convoluted delusional mind of a Liberal Progressive is ONLY $350,000 dollars of damage to the State Capitol acceptable. Had that been a TEA Party protest we would still be hearing about it from the Liberal Lamestream media about the terrorism and anger.

Lie I said, your delusion is only surpassed by your hypocrisy.

Someone said that it was 1million, LIE

You sound just like a few other righties on the vine

Same persons?

Re reg?

You only want to spew your bs, so do it with someone else. Start looking up and researching things before you post

The teabagged keep talking about how their tea racists are a grass roots movement. The only grass I think they see is what they must be smoking to believe the crap that comes from idiots like palin, beck, and bachmann.

I see the liberal accusations of "Re-Reg" all the time....as if there are only 5 or 6 Tea partiers who sign on MSNBC here. Tsk, tsk, they need to talk to Pelosi, she misunderestimated also.

Liberals project their daily KOS profiles and get "banned", and then Re-Reg, all the time accusing Conservatives of their profile, "banned and re-reg". It's called "projecting", you accuse your political opponents of doing what you do.

The "tea racist" thing is passé and so is the "radical" label, false accusations with no substance to support them.

And all the while "Liar" sticks to Obama like Glue. LOL

Only if you are wearing blinders you won't see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPEAXatvxvI&feature=related

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html

well said, jay tee.

Like you said AhhCrap nothing but blinders on that side and the keep patting themselves on the back for wearing them.

Great post Jay! 1.128

*dances with wolves*

And you list people...LMBO. people are not an agenda; unless of course, America is marxist now becasue we have BO, a marxist in office...see how that works?

People, who have been shown to have a religious agenda who are affiliated with the Tea Party. :) Those are what's known as "examples", cupcake. ;)

yeah, oh, really?

Witty.

Those dang sleeper cells at the Tea Party rallies are making bombs, huh?

You asked. I provided.

Try reality, friend .

I'm not your friend, guy. :p

I am done wasting time with elementary thinkers who can't back up their bullcrap claims...

So, you will be leaving the Tea Party then?

and throw crap up against a wal to see what sticks and as a retort do more of the same...

"wal" has two L's.

pathetic.

I'll win you over.

Hayte

Do you have anything substantial to post? or are you just out to heckle people? You talk a lot but you say nothing of substantial value! Just saying............

Hey, did you hear that the 'baggies (as a group) were less popular than atheists (as a group)??

45-50% disapproval overall and WORSE among independents -- that is not going to go un-noticed by real GOP leadership. Your little 'baggie candidates are NOT going to be the nominee. You are going to get sold south again by the GOP. Slow learners.

Hayte

Yo.

Do you have anything substantial to post?

I did. Scroll up.

or are you just out to heckle people?

Scroll up again. I posed a question still unanswered. Then the attacks began, as you are doing now. The topic is not me. Care to contribute to the discussion or are you here to heckle me?

You talk a lot but you say nothing of substantial value!

#1.44 Scroll up.

Just saying............

The battle cry of the timid.

I have been contributing! But you don't listen! I tried listening to the left's point of view but none of it makes any sense, it is riddled with hate and rhetoric so it tends to get my hackles up a little bit. Nothing personal. I'm just tired of the constant war going on, citizen against citizen, it's enough to make a person ashamed to be an American!

This is what I think about the leftists opinion about the tea party!

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/gif/f311694a343f8c41cbc5d77da70ad492b067ad68.gif

I have been contributing!

Not with me you haven't. You just butted in and talked down to me.

But you don't listen!

I read your post and then responded to each sentence.

I tried listening to the left's point of view but none of it makes any sense, it is riddled with hate and rhetoric so it tends to get my hackles up a little bit.

Do you have any examples of the leftist hate speech that seems to get under your skin? Perhaps if we take a look at the language you can understand why conversations seem to take that course. While we are at it, could you please point out what is "leftist" about my posts? I simply posed the question at 1.44 looking for what was wrong with ---> LIBERAL IDEOLOGY<----. I have made no claims to any thought process so, calm down.

Nothing personal.

Not until I pull out facts. Then you will cleverly misspell my name, make ad hominem attacks and generally denigrate me personally hoping that it somehow solidifies your viewpoint. It doesn't.

I'm just tired of the constant war going on, citizen against citizen, it's enough to make a person ashamed to be an American!

Uh huh. And, you're answer to that frustration is not to solve the problem or even treat the symptom but to plead for silence so you can feel better about being an American. Free speech isn't for the weak or timid. If your frustration bothers you that much, unplug and go bowling.

This is what I think about the leftists opinion about the tea party!

Is there some reason you needed to address me for that?

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/gif/f311694a343f8c41cbc5d77da70ad492b067ad68.gif

I don't care about your opinion. YOU addressed ME. In fact, YOU butted IN!

*burps*

...just saying. : /

It is not my intention to talk down to anyone, but sometimes I come across a few people that can only spew out hate and rhetoric, with such words as racists, T baggers, right wing nuts! They talk in circles yet acomplish nothing of any value. I apologize if I made you feel like I was talking down to you. After reading so much crap from the left it forces your mind into a fixed mousetrap that springs whenever someone starts tossing of the usual talking points and rhetoric without even reading about the subjects they are trying to comment on. They ignore any kind of links that prove an opinion correct or just completely deny it or say it has been debunked when it hasn't and then continue by shooting the messenger. Most of this stuff happens from the leftists. I don't hold to any political affiliation myself, I try to research from neutral sites whenever possible. have even snuck in sites that are pro leftist just to see if they got read! then had leftist tell me they are BS and insult me! that proved they don't read the links that are posted! they just like to hear themselves speak and see how many people they can piss off. It gets old fast.

I don't care about your opinion. YOU addressed ME. In fact, YOU butted IN!

If you don't care about the opinion of anyone else then why would you think anyone else would care about your opinion. Next, this is a public forum, butting in is pretty much S.O.P.

We are cool as far as I'm concerned ET. As always, I simply asked a question from those who are not prepared to back themselves up and we ended up here...again.

drummerboy

If you don't care about the opinion of anyone else then why would you think anyone else would care about your opinion.

Scroll up and READ IT AGAIN!!!!! No where does it state that I do not care for the opinion of "anyone else". I don't care about ET's opinion of the left. It simply has no value to me. I have that right as do you.

Next, this is a public forum, butting in is pretty much S.O.P.

I get that. Butting in and being derisive halfway through a conversation without understanding where it started or what the topic is NOT S.O.P. If it is for you, then you will find yourself being intellectually slapped on the nose time after time. Simply because you will have no intellectual ground to stand on in a conversation where parameters have been set.

So, either one of you want to answer the question I posed (1.44) or have something to say about the topic? Or are you so enamoured with me that your minds simply can't concoct a sentence because my presence is so distracting?

Hayte,

This is what you said in a nutshell word for word:

I don't care about your opinion. YOU addressed ME. In fact, YOU butted IN!

Regardless of whether that statement was meant for one person or many, the fact remains that if you don't care about someone's opinion, then why should anyone care about yours? You weren't specific, you generalized by saying this:

I don't care about your opinion.

BY generalizing this statement you leave the statement open to interpretation. As for the butting in part, it happens all the time around here and I seriously doubt you'll be doing any intellectual nose slapping anytime soon, especially after reading that last lil tidbit of narcissism.

drummerboy, I'm not sure you have a knowledge of what specific is opposed to general.

If I had stated to ET, I don't care about opinion. That would be a general statement because it lacks the specific notation in the use of the word "your". Sadly for your post, that is not the case. I DID include the specific use of the word "your" which makes it a specific statement to ET.

Hayte, you're attempting to make an argument you have no chance of winning. Obviously you're unaware the word "YOUR" can be singular as well as plural. Don't try to twist what is already written in black and white. Regardless, my point stands that if you don't care about anyone's opinion, then don't expect anyone, whether a specific person or people in general to care about yours. And don't cry about people butting into a conversation on a public website either. If you don't want people "Butting In", then you should hold your conversation in private.

Hayte, you're attempting to make an argument you have no chance of winning.

Uh huh.

Obviously you're unaware the word "YOUR" can be singular as well as plural.

You maintain that even in the face of the fact that my use of the word "your" was in RESPONSE to the person I was being specific to. ET.

Don't try to twist what is already written in black and white.

lulz.

Regardless, my point stands that if you don't care about anyone's opinion, then don't expect anyone, whether a specific person or people in general to care about yours.

Your (specific to you) point does NOT stand. You are desperately trying to prop it up by willfully misinterpreting basic syntax to maintain a position that is unwarranted. And, again, no where in that post will you find any indication that I was referring to "anyone's" opinion. It was in response to ET and it was in response to that post SPECIFICALLY. Not GENERALLY.

And don't cry about people butting into a conversation on a public website either.

I can do as I please and there isn't thing one you can do about it, scooter.

If you don't want people "Butting In", then you should hold your conversation in private.

Nowhere do I state that "I don't want people butting in". I do state that if one is to butt in, one should have an understanding of the conversation. Essentially, don't jump into the convesation and be judgemental until you understand the parameters of the conversation. And, on top of that, ET understood it. We are cool (as fa ras I'm concerned). And, I would happily engage ET with no ill will. Scroll up.

So, back off, man. You are in error. The use of the word "your" was in response (and quoted as such) to ET. The "butting in" thing was specific to that event. That is not a judgement of ET or any poster, but specific to this instance and THAT post.

But, now that we are here, I do enjoy that your pride and lack of education has found you without a leg to stand on. You might want to look into that behavioral mechanic and try to correct it. You are going to find that the behavior you are displaying in maintaining a manufactured viewpoint is one that will not win you many discussions or friends.

TEAdiocy can't be photoshopped away.

Guns at town hall meetings... will be remembered.

Signs and slogans about a black candidate/President Elect/President... will be remembered.

Taking our nation's economy and economic viability hostage... will be remembered.

There's a lot to be remembered and, to the TEAple's chagrin, those memories are not going to wind up the spin and tall tales they wish it all would be.

The truth about the REAL TEAgenda (aka anti-abortion - anti-education - anti-evolution - anti-climate science - anti-all GOP pet peaves) after they get elected... will be remembered.

Paint the pig with all the lipstick, rouge, and pancake all you want and advertise it as a runway model; the fact remains - no matter how you try to spin it the ugly thing is still a pig wallowing in Wall Street's pizzle and squeezings.

TEAdiocy can't be photoshopped away.

Neither can Democrat or Republican idiocy.

Guns at town hall meetings... will be remembered.

So will be Left wing shooting of Gabby Gifford. So what?

Signs and slogans about a black candidate/President Elect/President... will be remembered.

Like we remember the pictures of President Bush being burned in effigy? Portrayed as Hitler? Drawn as a monkey? Depicted as the Joker? Slogans like "baby-killer"? "Terrorist-in-chief"?

Puhleeze! Political cartoons and slogans are designed to be insulting, anti-establishment, and non-complimentary. Otherwise, how do you get across your disgust for the opponents views? Some people are idiots and go to far. It happens all the time on both sides of the fence. They think they have some kind of right to "free speech" or something stupid like that. Go figure...

Taking our nation's economy and economic viability hostage... will be remembered.

Longer than the time we will be paying off the debt incurred by this administration and the last? I doubt it.

The truth about the REAL TEAgenda (aka anti-abortion - anti-education - anti-evolution - anti-climate science - anti-all GOP pet peaves) after they get elected... will be remembered.

Once again, views shared by those on both sides of the fence although anti-education is straight up BS! The call to end the DOE is because we already have government agencies doing the same kind of work--School Boards! If they aren't up to snuff, vote them out! Not getting enough funding? Raise your local taxes! Kids are too stupid when they garduate to fill out a resume? (What's new?) Raise your standards! Quit passing the buck.

Paint the pig with all the lipstick, rouge, and pancake all you want and advertise it as a runway model; the fact remains - no matter how you try to spin it the ugly thing is still a pig wallowing in Wall Street's pizzle and squeezings.

Can you name one Congressman OR President elected in the last 100 years who hasn't dined at the Wall Street pig trough or maybe the PAC's or the Unions buffet's? Nah, I didn't think so...

Sling all the arrows you want, just make sure you hit all the targets. Ya gotta be fast--they're constantly moving!

Citizen Kane-473667

Like we remember the pictures of President Bush being burned in effigy? Portrayed as Hitler? Drawn as a monkey? Depicted as the Joker? Slogans like "baby-killer"? "Terrorist-in-chief"?

Big difference is the Racism by the GOP:

Citizen Kane

and pictures:

Racist

http://beertap.wordpress.com/2008/09/13/obama-waffles-racistrepublican-values-voters/

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/buy-obama-waffles-mix-stereotypes-are-free

http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff

as a neo con???????????????

http://beertap.wordpress.com/2008/09/13/obama-waffles-racistrepublican-values-voters/

MJL please explain to me why you think that stuff is racist. i see a box of waffle mix with a caracture of obama on it. no burning crosses no white hoods. no bad language. nothing calling for his death. not even white face. so what about it makes it racist other than someone told you it was?

MJL-3,

Waffeling is racist? Is eating waffels racist? OMG, I must be BLACK! Kewl! Add that to my Cherokee heritage and now I've really got some gripes to air...

thats got to be it, i prefer pancakes myself to waffles, but what about belguim waffles?

king jester

You know better.

Sadly, they don't.

Grae

Is is sad

Then please, enlighten us! How is putting a picture of Obama on a box of "waffle" mix racist? It is political commentary--nothing more; nothing less. Someone (the artist) felt the President was "waffeling" too much. They used a cartoon to say so.

Again I ask: How is this "racist"?

Again I ask: How is this "racist"?

I would like to help you, but my philosophy is and always will be to never teach a pig to read. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

If you looked at all sides of the box you would see the racist innuendos and attacks against PRESIDENT Obama.

I saw nothing racist on that box! a lot of political satire though! The creators admitted that they didn't even consider anyone might find the image racist. Racism is in the eye of the beholder! If it was Bush on the box you guys wouldn't be saying anything!

they wont and cant explain it cause its not, they just are claiming it is cause its about obama. and the news told them it was.

I would like to help you, but my philosophy is and always will be to never teach a pig to read. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Yeah, that's what I thought!!! Personal attacks and insults are all you have AS USUAL!!!!

If you looked at all sides of the box you would see the racist innuendos and attacks against PRESIDENT Obama.

Well, the sides shown on the links have nothing racist on them so you must have a link showing something these don't. Please, feel free to share it. As to attacks, well of course there are! They object to his policies so they use satire to attack them. Does that mean they are racist? If so, then I can't wait to hear you denigrate all of the Left who posted political cartoons of Bush as racist!

OMG this is just too, too, too good to be true. You really can't make this kind of @!$%# up! Talk about stretching and spinning! A rubber band long enough to make three laps around the entire galaxy would still not be anywhere near the stretching I'm seeing here.

And the Left wonders why their credibility is no better than the extreme Right...

Extra, King and Citizen

You guys are smart, you'll figure it out, Frankly, I get real tired have having to do "all" the work for you. Or go ahead and keep canoeing down your river of denial. :)

MJL, you need a new catch phrase, that one sank a long time ago!

Like I said "racism is in the eye of the beholder" since I am not a racist I don't see it!

I am colorblind. "Red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right, and which is an illusion! (excerpt from Moody Blues)

Extra!

I love Moody Blues great music

I like that phrase, first time I ever used it. I will use it if I want to.

We figured out long ago that you are seeing boogeymen racist where there are none...

Using the river of denial has been overplayed by so many that it has lost its impact. That is why I suggested using something new. But I guess some people aren't capable of thinking of anything new.That is why we get so many reruns and change the channel.